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| Anne Boleyn in the Tower by Edouard Cibot |
Although I do not admire neither Anne nor Elizabeth anywhere near as much as some, I can appreciate that both did make their mark on history. If I see them as a little more self-serving than bold, I hope their fervent fans will forgive me.
Clearly, Anne realized that she had indeed been wrong in her treatment of Henry VIII's eldest daughter, Mary. Anne caused Mary to lose the title of princess that she had held since birth, and Mary refused to recognize Anne as queen. It was a relationship doomed from the start, and neither desired to make any effort toward improving it. Both were known to wish for the death of the other.
However, when Anne's execution was approaching, she decided to apologize to Lady Mary. She had no reason to go out of her way to do so in her last hours, but she called for Lady Kingstone, wife of the Constable of the Tower, and asked her to relay her message of repentance. According to Martin Haile, Anne knelt before Lady Kingstone and requested that she, 'throw herself in like manner at the feet of Lady Mary, and beseech her to forgive the many wrongs which the pride of a thoughtless, unfortunate woman had brought upon her.'
Since she applied for permission to visit Lady Mary after Anne Boleyn's execution, it is believed that Lady Kingstone delivered the message. While Anne may have owed Mary that apology, one can easily argue that both women's problems were much more due to Henry VIII than each other. A bastardized daughter and insecure queen were unlikely to ever make amends before faced with their own mortality.
4 August 2022 NOTE: Because of continuous comments on this post that do not add to civil discourse, I am shutting off commenting for this post. Please, still feel free to use my contact form or join in other discussions on this blog! I apologize to those many dear readers who are not part of the problem. Thank you for your understanding. ~ Samantha
Interesting...never knew that, and now I look upon her a bit more kindly. Thanks for sharing!
ReplyDeleteI feel really sorry for both those ladies I dont think Anne was as bad as some portray her, in those days if a king wanted a lady they couldnt say no unless they fled into a convent or appealed to the pope I dont think Queen Elizabeth had much choice she had to harden up
ReplyDeleteI think that Anne aimed high and suffered a terrific fall. Was she completely to blame? No, but she knew what she was getting herself into. As for Elizabeth, she did have to be stern. She learned lessons from her sister's reign on that score. However, she could also be cruel. She did not seem able to balance her desire to be respected as queen with kindness.
DeleteHow could Anne have known she would be executed? The worst she could have anticipated is what happened to Katharine of Aragon or Elizabeth Woodville after Edward IV died
DeleteOk so if she apologized to mary.what was marys answer?
ReplyDeleteAnne had been executed by the time Mary received the message.
DeleteIf I am correct, Mary never forgave Anne and was still angry about it until her dying day.
DeleteThat's probably true, though she had a decent relationship with Elizabeth at times.
DeleteRight but forgiveness is for you. I think Mary's inability to,forgive Anne probably caused her a lot of pain. I am,not excusing Anne's part just saying that forgivenesd is for you, not the offender.
DeleteThat is a good point. I hope that Mary did. She certainly could be merciful.
DeleteI think Mary's treatment of Elizabeth showed that Mary never forgave Anne. Elizabeth could be cruel but Mary was often as well.
DeleteThe story of Anne's begging forgiveness of Mary comes from John Speed's "History of Great Britain," and is ascribed by him to "a relation from a nobleman." The "nobleman" is unnamed; he may have been Sir William Kingston, whose wife is a principal figure in the tale. It was apparently Lady Kingston who informed Princess Mary that Anne had been executed. Shortly thereafter (May 26, 1536), Mary wrote to Thomas Cromwell, asking him to be her advocate with her father, which, she said, she did not dare to do before, "as long as that woman lived, which is now gone (whom I pray Our Lord of His great mercy to forgive)." To that extent, at least, Mary did forgive Anne.
DeleteGood to know. I have, like many, been too hard on Mary.
DeleteAlthough Mary's treatment did not truly improve until Katharine Parr came on the scene. It's nothing more than a pious legend that Jane Seymour secured this for her.
DeleteI would disagree with the statement:"she had no reason to do so..."
ReplyDeleteOf course she had a reason. They weren't executing her child along with her, were they? Anne was considering that her own offspring might be given the same treatment that she had meted out to her predecessor's offspring. And hoping that, through this last-gasp contrition, Mary would do what she could to ease the condition of Elizabeth.
She may have been thinking of Elizabeth, though at that time she had little reason to believe that Mary would ever have power over Elizabeth. She may have simply been preparing her soul for heaven, so you are right. 'No reason to do so,' is not exactly correct. Thank you.
DeleteMaybe Elizabeth should have been killed too? Just sayng
DeleteKatharine of Aragon, the true queen of England! Saint Mary TUdor!
Anon- I wouldn't go that far.
DeleteI did a book about Anne but I do agree she was horrendous to Mary. I also think Mary is totally innocent in the burning of protestants and I also think Mary did the right thing to abuse Elizabeth
ReplyDeleteHi, Helen. I think it's interesting that people accuse Mary of abusing Elizabeth. She treated her much more generously than Elizabeth treated any of her female relatives once she was queen.
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DeleteI wanted to edit my comment but there is no edit button.,may I ask why you dislike Anne and Elizabeth?
DeleteI wouldn't say that I dislike Anne and Elizabeth, rather I dislike the rose-colored glasses that many people currently view them through. They are both glorified beyond anything that is realistic. Elizabeth was a successful female monarch, much moreso than her sister, but she did some terrible things along the way. That side of her tends to be ignored, and I don't like to see history whitewashed.
DeleteThat is understandable. I'm concerned though that the current trend is going the other direction-- to whitewash Mary. It seems the current trend is very pro Katharine and Mary and very anti Anne and Elizabeth. So I think it's more Katharine and Mary that have the fervent fans nowadays.
DeleteKatherine definitely has strong defenders. I feel like Anne is the one with the greatest modern following though. I don't even like to go on social media during the month of May! ;-)
DeleteWhy not?
DeleteOn the subject of followers,,I have been flamed and even given death threats by the Katharine/Mary camp on YouTube. I admire Katharine of Aragon too!
Social media tends to be toxic anyway. I minimize it all 12 months of the year.
DeleteWow! I can't believe how passionate people can be about that sort of thing. Though I shouldn't be surprised because I have had people quite angry that I don't worship Elizabeth I. (May is when Anne Boleyn was executed, so it seems that the entire month gets dedicated to her memory. A little much for me since I don't even find her to be my favorite among Henry's wives let alone all the other fascinating historical women.)
DeleteI like Anne and Elizabeth but I do agree they overshadow many other historical women. I got tired of them and moved onto the Egyptian queens.
DeleteWho is your favorite of Henry's queens? Most people who dislike Anne and Elizabeth like Jane Seymour.
I used to have the same anger you are mentioning but I grew up and realized different people like different things.
None of Henry's wives are top on my list of favorite historical women, but I would say Katherine of Aragon and Katherine Parr are probably the ones I admire most. I have never studies Egyptian queens - sounds interesting!
DeleteSorry our messages crossed.
DeleteI did a series on Cleopatra that imagines her winning. I do alternate history but it does involve a lot of research. I am just as fascinated by her famous ancestors. Did you know she was the seventh queen to bear the name? Hatshepsut and Nefertiti are also among my favorite historical women.
As for Anne she definitely could have treated Mary better, I agree. I do like Katharine parr and Katharine of Aragon. With the tragedies of her father's wives though I don't blame,Elizabeth for not marrying, especially after how Philip treated Mary.
Neither Philip nor Henry gave Elizabeth a glowing example of what a husband should be!
DeleteAt least we agree on,something!
DeleteSamantha, are you glad Anne was killed? Since you don't even like to see tributes to her memory, it makes me wonder.
DeleteNo, I do not believe Anne deserved to be killed. I don't like the entire month of May being dedicated to some falsely glorified version of her, but I am not glad she was killed.
DeleteIt's funny - in the media I tend to follow, May is Bonnie and Clyde month! 😁
DeleteI think people assume if you like one you can't like the other. I admire aspects of Katharine, Anne and Elizabeth. I don't admire Mary I but I don't hate her either.
ReplyDeleteI think there are qualities to admire each of them for.....some more than others. ;-)
DeleteSamantha i want to apologize for some of the things i said to you in regards to our differences in opinion. If i offended you by defending Elizabeth I and Anne Boleyn. I am truly sorry. I would stilk like to be on good terms and i apologize for saying and doing things that offended you, but it is your choice.
DeleteNo apology necessary! I appreciate different views and all of your comments. Discussing them is the best way to learn from each other.
DeleteThanks
DeleteWhat do you think of Mary II and Anne?
I've honestly not studied them enough to have an opinion.
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DeleteDid Henry ever apologize to Mary?
ReplyDeleteHa! Henry apologize. That's a good one. ;-)
DeleteGiven what Mary lager became Anne's treatment of her is to be applauded. Anne didn't need to apologize as shd did nothing wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnne must have been a prophetess to know that Mary preemptively deserved poor treatment as a teenage girl. Way to go, Anne.
DeleteWhere is your sympathy for the peiple Mary burnt to,death?
DeleteNot really the topic of this post, but I think it is dishonest to separate what happened during Mary's reign from the horrid executions that took place throughout the Tudor era and throughout Europe in the 16th century. Most monarchs didn't know how to effectively deal with the Reformation, and Mary was not exceptional in this. You might be interested in these posts that deal more specifically with your question.
Deletehttps://samanthawilcoxson.blogspot.com/2017/05/what-if-mary-hadnt-burned-heretics.html
https://samanthawilcoxson.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-counter-reformation-of-queen-mary-i.html
I am glad- no EXUBERANT- that Mary got abused by Anne. She deawrvwd all of it and more.
ReplyDeleteExuberant that a teenage girl was abused? Ok, then. That's one perspective.
DeleteAnne repented. There is no evidence of Elizabeth doing so.
ReplyDeleteI can't think of a better example of,someone who gained the world but lost their soul than Elizabeth I. Mary is a better role model.
Meh this is a woman who burnt a pregnant woman and then ordered thr baby killed too. So Anne's treatment of her is to be applauded.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we should ever applaud the bad treatment of any human being, but passions seem to run high when discussing certain historical figures. I am aware of a pregnant woman and her baby being burned during Mary's reign, but I do not believe there is any evidence that this was ordered by Mary or that she even knew about it. May I ask, what is your source?
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DeleteNo biography of Mary I've read has said that she laughed about the burning of the baby.
DeleteHow did she respond to it?
DeleteYou know she died with devils coming into her room right?
I'm not aware of any record of her being informed or how she reacted if she was ever told.
DeleteYou do know as a Lutheran Mary would have killed you right? I hope Jesus excluded her when he went to the cross
ReplyDeleteYes, I am aware of Mary's stance on Lutheranism. I try to study history objectively, regardless of my personal beliefs.
DeleteBut she didnt punish the person who did it. To me this is a sign of her wicked heart.
DeleteIn regards to not punishing the person who did it, I believe you are referring to the burning of the baby. I have not deeply researched this event and am not sure if Mary learned of it or how she reacted if she did.
DeletePut yourself in the shoes of her victims. You are Tied to a stake. You know in a few minutes you will be an unbearable horrible pain. You try not to think about it as the Catholic priest that you will BBQ in h*** forever for not believing a piece of bread is Jesus. The fire is let it is done as slowly as possible. You scream and pay now tout dare you defend very todor
ReplyDeleteYes, burning was a terrible punishment. I wouldn't say I'm defending this course of action as much as I try to understand the people who did it and the mindset of the era in which it occurred.
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ReplyDeleteWhat was wrong with my previous comment?
ReplyDeleteSeveral comments were deleted for profanity and hateful language toward others, but I did not keep record of specific comments.
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DeleteBetween Elizabeth and Mary, who has a better personality?
ReplyDeleteMary. No contest.
DeleteI never realised that Anne apologised to Mary, but I'm glad to hear that she did. After reading these comments I'm actually really disappointed that people can't seem to accept that different people have different opinions. Personally, the Queens I find most interesting from the Tudor Era are Katherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Katherine Howard and Elizabeth I but I don't expect anybody to have to alter their views to fit mine. I also think it's awful that people are claiming the abuse Mary received was justified due to who she became - this abuse is probably what shaped her to take such actions! Without it, she might not have clung so fiercely to the ideal that all Protestants were heretics and clinging to her religion in a manner that meant she was not tolerant of others.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting how passionately people identify with historical figures - or their image of them.
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DeleteWhat abuse was done to Mary?
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DeleteWhat abuse? She was boxed on the ears, tortured and racked by Anne Boleyn.
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ReplyDeleteI am sure Mary's victims who were suffering a terrible death by fire did not think "it's ok, she had a bad childhood and Anne Boleyn abused her."
ReplyDeleteI'm sure they didn't. Of course, neither of those are reasons that those perceived as heretics were burned.
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DeleteThis is an absurd level of exaggeration. Posting such a sentiment marks one, not only as no kind of serious student of history, but as not far short of a monomaniac on this subject.
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DeleteI apologize. I have done some more research and now share samantha's opinion.
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ReplyDeleteI am glad Anne apologized to Mary. Nothing humbles you like being brought to justice for replacing a kind and pious lady like Katharine of Aragon.
ReplyDeleteI can't share your view that Anne didn't deserve to be executed. Givsn she threatened Katharine of Aragon so many times, she got what she put out.
I don't get why so many worship Anne. Because she gave birth to Elizabeth I?
Elizabeth wouldn't have been who she was had Anne raised her.
An interesting thought to consider how Elizabeth might be different had her mother's fate not been so tragic.
DeleteTragic? It was karma, Samantha.
DeleteAnne's execution was so she wouldn't raise Elizabeth, thank God!
I doubt Anne meant this apology.
ReplyDeleteThe British people cheered when Anne was executed.
I would love to go back in time, give Katharine and Mary big big hugs and tell them that until very recently, they were loved and the cult of the woman that replaced them is very recent.
ReplyDeleteI am sure they would be horrified to see the pro Anne and Elizabeth people saying their suffering didnt matter because of 'Gloriana.'
Why are you so butthurt that Anne gave Mary exactly what she deserved?
ReplyDeleteI side with those who are pro Anne and Elizabeth.
Sorry Samantha but the pro Elizabeth people are right and you pro Mary people are wrong.
You're Catholic right? This is why you're incapable of objectivity about history.
I considered deleting this comment, but since you have made several confrontational statements I will respond. I am not 'pro-Mary' and do not believe history has sides, which makes it ironic that you are accusing me of being 'incapable of objectivity.' I am not Catholic and was therefore required to deeply research Mary's beliefs and 16th century mindset in order to write from her point-of-view. This does not mean I agree with her beliefs or actions. I am here to study history, not pick teams.
DeleteIs there not some way to block this person from posting in the future? It has become exceptionally tiresome to find these effusions in my mailbox every few months. I cannot see that any good purpose is served by this continual repetition of opinions displaying no sobriety or understanding of impartial history, except perhaps for Roman Catholicism by portraying Protestantism in the light of a maniacal vindictiveness. Even Mary was able to pray for Anne after she had died.
DeleteBy the way, have you read Lady Southwell's account of the death of Queen Elizabeth? The original document was, alas, destroyed by a fire at Stonyhurst, but before that it was copied and incorporated into Dodd’s Church History of England (1840). Elements from it have been incorporated into numerous histories since, but if you are interested in a transcript of this primary source (unfortunately in modernized form), I do have a copy in the form of a .docx which I could supply you, if you'd like. Doubts have, of course, been cast on its accuracy, due to the writer's pro-Roman Catholic partisanship and the bizarre supernatural events it attests, but it does seem to have at least some truth as its basis, and is, in many ways, complementary to Elizabeth.
I apologize for your email getting spammed due to these comments. I cannot block a user on this platform, but I have decided to start moderating/approving comments. I hope that this will help limit the negative and unproductive commentary. Thank you for staying engaged on this topic despite the problems. I have to admit that I have not studies Elizabeth much and have not read Lady Southwell's account, though I have heard of it. It sounds interesting!
DeleteTannhaeser I do want to apologize.
ReplyDeleteI realize these comments only made me look bad. You are correct, there is no point to this. And I'm sorry I said Mary deserved to be treated the way she was by Anne. I do realize it makes me sound immature.
For some reason people get very emotional about The Tudors. I'm sorry for disturbing you.
Also in fairness... all history is subject to interpretation and personal opinion since we weren't there.
ReplyDeleteSamantha why do Catholics pray to Mary I of England?
ReplyDeleteThey do not. They pray to the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus.
DeleteWhy do Catholics believe burning people alive is acceptable?
DeleteFirst I would say they 'did' rather than they 'do,' and I have written several posts/articles on this topic. This is a good one to start with: https://samanthawilcoxson.blogspot.com/2017/05/what-if-mary-hadnt-burned-heretics.html
DeleteGood article but sadly probably not going to be read as much as it should.
DeleteSamantha what do you think of Henry claiming that Anne Boleyn planned to poison Mary and Henry Fitzroy?
ReplyDeleteDid Henry claim that? Seems a rather bold plot.
DeleteYes. It is Antonia Fraser's biography of Anne Boleyn and also her collective biography of all of Henry's wives.
DeleteI think Henry may have been trying to deflect blame from his own abuse of his own daughter. Firzroy died 2 months after Anne was executed and he still found a way to blame Anne.
Sounds like Henry - always someone else's fault.
DeleteAnne didn't cause Mary to lose her title, Henry did.
ReplyDeleteNot excusing Anne as her treatment of poor Mary cannot be condoned. But Anne didn't have the authority to take Mary's title away.
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ReplyDeleteShe is being screened now. Sorry I let it get so out of hand.
DeleteWhere does Martin Haile get this information about the apology? Is this based on fact or fiction?
ReplyDeleteI no longer have this book on hand, so I can't reference the notes. It is from Martin Haile's 'Life of Reginald Pole.'
DeleteMartin Haile’s source is undoubtedly (as I mentioned above) John Speed’s “The Historie of Great Britain,” in which the source for Anne’s apology is a “relation of a Nobleman.” This nobleman is almost certainly Sir William Kingston, whose wife Mary was in attendance upon Anne in her last days in the Tower. The story must be taken cum grano salis. The vehemently Protestant Speed is very much concerned to justify Anne’s reputation, which had been thoroughly blackened by Catholic apologists and others, to the extent that he is willing to blame her downfall on a plot engineered by Pope Paul III (!); further, Speed’s relation is third-hand at best (Lady Kingston to Sir William to Speed), and appeared no earlier than the reign of King James, at least seven decades after the events recorded. Still, there is nothing inherently impossible or even very improbable in the tale, so one can hardly be greatly blamed for accepting it as a true account.
DeleteFrom John Speed’s “The Historie of Great Britaine vnder the conquests of the Romans, Saxons, Danes and Normans.” (Second Edition, 1623), Book 9., Section 93, p. 1032:
“[Marginal note: Out of the relation of a Nobleman.] And by the working of the ſame faith, her penancy was ſeene , in her ſorrowes conceiued, and thirſting reconciliation vnto them whom ſhee had any wiſe offended , as by this worthy example is apparant; when the day before ſhe ſuffered death, being attended vpon with ſixe Ladies in the Tower, ſhe tooke the Lady Kingſton into her Preſence-Chamber, and there locking the dore vpon them, willed her to ſit downe in the chaire of Eſtate : whereunto ſhe anſwered, that it was her duty to ſtand, and not to ſit at all in her preſence , much leſſe vpon the ſeat and ſtate of her , her Queene. Ah Madam, quoth ſhe, that title is gone, I am a condemned perſon , and by law haue no eſtateleft me in this life; but for clearing of my conſcience, I pray you ſit downe; well, ſaid the Lady Kingſton, I haue often plaid the foole in my youth, and to fulfill your command, I will doe it once more in mine age, and thereupon ſate downe vnder the cloath of eſtate; [Marginal note: The example of Queene Annes penancy] which no ſooner was done, but that the Queene moſt hymbly fell vpon her knees before her, and with teares, holding vp her hands, charged her in the preſence of God and his Angels, as ſhe would anſwere her before them, when all ſhould appeare in iudgement, that ſhe ſhould ſo fall downe before the Lady Maries Grace, her daughter in Law; and in her name in like manner, aske [sic] her forgiuenes for the wrongs ſhe had done her, for till that was accompliſhed (ſhee ſaid) her conſcience could not bee quiet : what her offence was to her ward, we know not, but may bee ſuppoſed not to bee capitall , the Queenes caſe wayed, the time conſidered, and her enemies none of the meaneſt,onely this I obſerue, that as ſhee cleared her conſcience of the leſſer crimes, ſo vndoubtedly would ſhee haue done of the greater, if any had been committed,and ſo as her ſelfe inſtantly deſired, I commit her caſe to be charitably ſpoken of, and leaue her and them vnto the Lord.”
Oh, lovely! Thanks so much, Tannhaeuser! You clearly know more about the topic than I do. :-)
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